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	<title>Comments on: Will The Pharma Supply Chain Find Any Value In GS1 Discovery Services?</title>
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	<link>http://www.rxtrace.com/2010/02/will-the-pharma-supply-chain-find-any-value-in-gs1-discovery-services.html/</link>
	<description>A comprehensive exploration of the intersection between the pharmaceutical supply chain, track and trace technology, standards and regulatory compliance</description>
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		<title>By: Dirk Rodgers</title>
		<link>http://www.rxtrace.com/2010/02/will-the-pharma-supply-chain-find-any-value-in-gs1-discovery-services.html/comment-page-1/#comment-73</link>
		<dc:creator>Dirk Rodgers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Feb 2010 01:36:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rxtrace.com/?p=116#comment-73</guid>
		<description>Ali,
Thanks for the compliment and thanks for reading.  If I understand your proposal I think it could work, but I&#039;m not sure it would be the best solution.  In my view, each buyer of a drug receiving the full pedigree up to that point is the best way of ensuring that they alone control the value of that drug.  They don&#039;t have to rely on third parties and contracts to ensure it.  Combine that with EPCIS&#039;s and Discovery Services for use with the non-regulatory &quot;track&quot; applications and you end up with the best track and trace capability you could want.

On the other hand, I proposed a track and trace system three years ago that relied on third-party repositories and subscriber contracts that specified things like high availability, disaster recovery and service level agreements.  At that time, no one really liked the idea because the concept of a distributed pedigree that relied on something like discovery services still had a lot of appeal to most people.  

I think the concept could work with the right kind of contracts, but I&#039;m suspicious that the cost would be prohibitive because of the high cost of a major data loss or connectivity problems.

Dirk.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ali,<br />
Thanks for the compliment and thanks for reading.  If I understand your proposal I think it could work, but I&#8217;m not sure it would be the best solution.  In my view, each buyer of a drug receiving the full pedigree up to that point is the best way of ensuring that they alone control the value of that drug.  They don&#8217;t have to rely on third parties and contracts to ensure it.  Combine that with EPCIS&#8217;s and Discovery Services for use with the non-regulatory &#8220;track&#8221; applications and you end up with the best track and trace capability you could want.</p>
<p>On the other hand, I proposed a track and trace system three years ago that relied on third-party repositories and subscriber contracts that specified things like high availability, disaster recovery and service level agreements.  At that time, no one really liked the idea because the concept of a distributed pedigree that relied on something like discovery services still had a lot of appeal to most people.  </p>
<p>I think the concept could work with the right kind of contracts, but I&#8217;m suspicious that the cost would be prohibitive because of the high cost of a major data loss or connectivity problems.</p>
<p>Dirk.</p>
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		<title>By: Ali Rezafard</title>
		<link>http://www.rxtrace.com/2010/02/will-the-pharma-supply-chain-find-any-value-in-gs1-discovery-services.html/comment-page-1/#comment-64</link>
		<dc:creator>Ali Rezafard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Feb 2010 16:20:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rxtrace.com/?p=116#comment-64</guid>
		<description>Hi Dirk,
 
Thank you for another thought provoking article. I have been thinking over the pedigree law and the point that pedigree information is actually part of the product itself. This reminded of the Electronic Funds Transfer (EFT) Act, which requires “banks” to respond and resolve consumer issues within a defined timeframe and quality. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_Funds_Transfer_Act
 
Initially when PayPal started up, it ran into some difficulties in being compliant with the act. Since it had to overcome some hurdles that the traditional players had a good handle on. But overcoming those challenges enabled it to be the de-facto online financial transaction facility.

How about if traceability solution providers guaranteed access to Traceability information, under an act similar to EFT? For example, there can be Availability Certification programs that service providers can subscribe to and would ensure that their solution is in compliance with the EFT. 
 
So each supply chain participant would host the entire pedigree that it is holding over their own EPCIS and the industry Discovery Services. Access control to this information is made possible thru standard interfaces and in compliance with the regulation.
 
This approach would enable traceability further down the chain beyond the packaged products [, while protecting trade secrets via auxiliary services such as identifier anonymizers.] As well as having the ability to be extended up the stream to consumers, via smart medicine cabinets, which can participate and assist in performing surgical recalls. 
 
Are there cases where the pedigree information owner is not known when the goods leave the custody of the shipper? For example with distribution channels and 3rd party service providers. I am asking this since the product itself and its e-pedigree information could travel on different channels. 
 
Best Regards,
Ali</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Dirk,</p>
<p>Thank you for another thought provoking article. I have been thinking over the pedigree law and the point that pedigree information is actually part of the product itself. This reminded of the Electronic Funds Transfer (EFT) Act, which requires “banks” to respond and resolve consumer issues within a defined timeframe and quality. </p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_Funds_Transfer_Act" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_Funds_Transfer_Act</a></p>
<p>Initially when PayPal started up, it ran into some difficulties in being compliant with the act. Since it had to overcome some hurdles that the traditional players had a good handle on. But overcoming those challenges enabled it to be the de-facto online financial transaction facility.</p>
<p>How about if traceability solution providers guaranteed access to Traceability information, under an act similar to EFT? For example, there can be Availability Certification programs that service providers can subscribe to and would ensure that their solution is in compliance with the EFT. </p>
<p>So each supply chain participant would host the entire pedigree that it is holding over their own EPCIS and the industry Discovery Services. Access control to this information is made possible thru standard interfaces and in compliance with the regulation.</p>
<p>This approach would enable traceability further down the chain beyond the packaged products [, while protecting trade secrets via auxiliary services such as identifier anonymizers.] As well as having the ability to be extended up the stream to consumers, via smart medicine cabinets, which can participate and assist in performing surgical recalls. </p>
<p>Are there cases where the pedigree information owner is not known when the goods leave the custody of the shipper? For example with distribution channels and 3rd party service providers. I am asking this since the product itself and its e-pedigree information could travel on different channels. </p>
<p>Best Regards,<br />
Ali</p>
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		<title>By: Dirk Rodgers</title>
		<link>http://www.rxtrace.com/2010/02/will-the-pharma-supply-chain-find-any-value-in-gs1-discovery-services.html/comment-page-1/#comment-63</link>
		<dc:creator>Dirk Rodgers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Feb 2010 12:51:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rxtrace.com/?p=116#comment-63</guid>
		<description>Daniel,
Thanks for clarifying that.  Now I understand what you are saying and I do agree with you.  With the additional level of depth being registered by the product owners it eliminates my concern about the non-owners needing the additional infrastructure and aggregation information.

Thanks.
Dirk.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Daniel,<br />
Thanks for clarifying that.  Now I understand what you are saying and I do agree with you.  With the additional level of depth being registered by the product owners it eliminates my concern about the non-owners needing the additional infrastructure and aggregation information.</p>
<p>Thanks.<br />
Dirk.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel G. Hernandez</title>
		<link>http://www.rxtrace.com/2010/02/will-the-pharma-supply-chain-find-any-value-in-gs1-discovery-services.html/comment-page-1/#comment-61</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel G. Hernandez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Feb 2010 04:38:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rxtrace.com/?p=116#comment-61</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t agree with the claim that RFID for cases and pallets is required in order for Discovery Services to add value by offering a greater depth of trace. Sure you can make a case that it is ideal; particularly when Chain of Custody information needs to be registered by non-Business Owners such as carriers as you point out.  But the RFID on pallet and cases debate needs to be handled separately.  Instead, my claim was that the industry could use a non-Discovery Services based pedigree model to express Chain of Ownership information and rely on Discovery Services to interrogate the network for more detailed Chain of Custody information registered to the system by Business Owners.   And because Business Owners will have the information for item-level inference, the RFID only claim doesn&#039;t hold up.  

Daniel</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t agree with the claim that RFID for cases and pallets is required in order for Discovery Services to add value by offering a greater depth of trace. Sure you can make a case that it is ideal; particularly when Chain of Custody information needs to be registered by non-Business Owners such as carriers as you point out.  But the RFID on pallet and cases debate needs to be handled separately.  Instead, my claim was that the industry could use a non-Discovery Services based pedigree model to express Chain of Ownership information and rely on Discovery Services to interrogate the network for more detailed Chain of Custody information registered to the system by Business Owners.   And because Business Owners will have the information for item-level inference, the RFID only claim doesn&#8217;t hold up.  </p>
<p>Daniel</p>
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		<title>By: Dirk Rodgers</title>
		<link>http://www.rxtrace.com/2010/02/will-the-pharma-supply-chain-find-any-value-in-gs1-discovery-services.html/comment-page-1/#comment-58</link>
		<dc:creator>Dirk Rodgers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 13:54:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rxtrace.com/?p=116#comment-58</guid>
		<description>Daniel,
Thanks.  You could make that argument in theory, but to make it work would require a mandate to force all manufacturers to put RFID tags on all cases and pallets, and every handler of drugs in the supply chain--owners and non-owners--would have to install RFID infrastructure and connect to Discovery Services.  It sounds like a solution provider&#039;s dream, but I think it is unlikely to become a law.  So far, regulators and legislators don&#039;t like to mandate specific technical solutions, preferring to leave that choice up to the industry.  

There are quite a few manufacturers who appear to be interested in applying RFID tags on their cases and pallets, but there are still a sizable number who appear to be planning to use only barcodes due to the cost difference.  This makes it logistically impractical to track cases through non-owner points.  

Also, the owners of drugs in the supply chain (and regulators too, for that matter) will resist providing non-owner handlers of the product with any of the item-level details of the container contents, including aggregation information.  For this reason, non-owner handlers (couriers, delivery companies, trucking companies, etc.) would not be able to perform the practice of item-level &lt;em&gt;inference&lt;/em&gt; and that will seriously complicate the ability to track drugs through these points.  Remember, pedigree regulations focus on tracing the items, not the containers.

So, to me, what you are suggesting may be true in theory, it is probably impractical.

Would you agree?

Dirk.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Daniel,<br />
Thanks.  You could make that argument in theory, but to make it work would require a mandate to force all manufacturers to put RFID tags on all cases and pallets, and every handler of drugs in the supply chain&#8211;owners and non-owners&#8211;would have to install RFID infrastructure and connect to Discovery Services.  It sounds like a solution provider&#8217;s dream, but I think it is unlikely to become a law.  So far, regulators and legislators don&#8217;t like to mandate specific technical solutions, preferring to leave that choice up to the industry.  </p>
<p>There are quite a few manufacturers who appear to be interested in applying RFID tags on their cases and pallets, but there are still a sizable number who appear to be planning to use only barcodes due to the cost difference.  This makes it logistically impractical to track cases through non-owner points.  </p>
<p>Also, the owners of drugs in the supply chain (and regulators too, for that matter) will resist providing non-owner handlers of the product with any of the item-level details of the container contents, including aggregation information.  For this reason, non-owner handlers (couriers, delivery companies, trucking companies, etc.) would not be able to perform the practice of item-level <em>inference</em> and that will seriously complicate the ability to track drugs through these points.  Remember, pedigree regulations focus on tracing the items, not the containers.</p>
<p>So, to me, what you are suggesting may be true in theory, it is probably impractical.</p>
<p>Would you agree?</p>
<p>Dirk.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel G. Hernandez</title>
		<link>http://www.rxtrace.com/2010/02/will-the-pharma-supply-chain-find-any-value-in-gs1-discovery-services.html/comment-page-1/#comment-57</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel G. Hernandez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 04:37:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rxtrace.com/?p=116#comment-57</guid>
		<description>Dirk, excellent essay!  I think you are right to emphasize that the primary value of discovery services within pharma would be in a trading partner&#039;s ability to track. Although, you could argue that discovery services would allow for a greater depth of trace if pedigrees were to continue to be used to represent the chain of ownership rather than the chain of custody of dangerous drugs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dirk, excellent essay!  I think you are right to emphasize that the primary value of discovery services within pharma would be in a trading partner&#8217;s ability to track. Although, you could argue that discovery services would allow for a greater depth of trace if pedigrees were to continue to be used to represent the chain of ownership rather than the chain of custody of dangerous drugs.</p>
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		<title>By: Dirk Rodgers</title>
		<link>http://www.rxtrace.com/2010/02/will-the-pharma-supply-chain-find-any-value-in-gs1-discovery-services.html/comment-page-1/#comment-55</link>
		<dc:creator>Dirk Rodgers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 11:31:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rxtrace.com/?p=116#comment-55</guid>
		<description>John,
Thanks for your support.  My comments about the non-compliance uses of Discovery Services were couched with the qualifier &quot;depending on the adoption model&quot;.  Let me explain.  The &quot;adoption model&quot; of &quot;track and trace&quot; is actually split into two different adoption models.  As I have discussed, &quot;Trace&quot; is the concept of &quot;pedigree&quot;, and the general adoption model of pedigree is mandated by pedigree laws, wherever they apply.  That is to say, under those laws, everyone in the supply chain &lt;em&gt;must&lt;/em&gt; participate and everyone &lt;em&gt;must&lt;/em&gt; pass the same specific data elements.  There is not a lot of room for variation because of the mandate.

But &quot;Track&quot; is not mandated by any law so it can have wide variation in the adoption model.  No company is compelled to participate in &quot;Track&quot;.  In fact, most of the data needed to properly track drugs through the supply chain will be owned by wholesalers.  A workable adoption model for &quot;Track&quot; in a serialized pharma supply chain will have to acknowledge that ownership.  There is no guarantee that such an adoption model will be developed or widely deployed because &quot;Track&quot; is fully voluntary.  Therefore there is no guarantee that GS1 Discovery Services will actually result in the potential benefits of Track that I listed, including diversion detection.

Dirk.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John,<br />
Thanks for your support.  My comments about the non-compliance uses of Discovery Services were couched with the qualifier &#8220;depending on the adoption model&#8221;.  Let me explain.  The &#8220;adoption model&#8221; of &#8220;track and trace&#8221; is actually split into two different adoption models.  As I have discussed, &#8220;Trace&#8221; is the concept of &#8220;pedigree&#8221;, and the general adoption model of pedigree is mandated by pedigree laws, wherever they apply.  That is to say, under those laws, everyone in the supply chain <em>must</em> participate and everyone <em>must</em> pass the same specific data elements.  There is not a lot of room for variation because of the mandate.</p>
<p>But &#8220;Track&#8221; is not mandated by any law so it can have wide variation in the adoption model.  No company is compelled to participate in &#8220;Track&#8221;.  In fact, most of the data needed to properly track drugs through the supply chain will be owned by wholesalers.  A workable adoption model for &#8220;Track&#8221; in a serialized pharma supply chain will have to acknowledge that ownership.  There is no guarantee that such an adoption model will be developed or widely deployed because &#8220;Track&#8221; is fully voluntary.  Therefore there is no guarantee that GS1 Discovery Services will actually result in the potential benefits of Track that I listed, including diversion detection.</p>
<p>Dirk.</p>
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		<title>By: John Herron</title>
		<link>http://www.rxtrace.com/2010/02/will-the-pharma-supply-chain-find-any-value-in-gs1-discovery-services.html/comment-page-1/#comment-53</link>
		<dc:creator>John Herron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 15:30:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rxtrace.com/?p=116#comment-53</guid>
		<description>Well thought out post, Dirk.  I personally believe the non-compliance value of Discovery Services in the pharma supply chain will be proven-out with recall, returns and other use cases that require multi-hop data sharing to accurately solve.  Insights you can share on why diversion detection will be the highest value use cse for DS will be appreciated.  Thanks again for the excellent posts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well thought out post, Dirk.  I personally believe the non-compliance value of Discovery Services in the pharma supply chain will be proven-out with recall, returns and other use cases that require multi-hop data sharing to accurately solve.  Insights you can share on why diversion detection will be the highest value use cse for DS will be appreciated.  Thanks again for the excellent posts.</p>
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